Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!wlbr!news.cerf.net!netlabs!lwall
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Subject: Re: Why is Lisp inactive compared to Perl et al?
Message-ID: <1995May8.235404.23513@netlabs.com>
Organization: NetLabs, Inc., Los Altos, California.
References: <20030.larso171@maroon.tc.umn.edu> <19950506T105623Z.enag@naggum.no>
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 23:54:04 GMT
Lines: 45

In article <19950506T105623Z.enag@naggum.no>,
Erik Naggum  <erik@naggum.no> wrote:
: teaching Lisp without being at least a little smug about its obvious
: superiority requires very mature teachers.  the relative lack of such
: teachers may contribute to the lack of interest in Lisp for the regular
: programming tasks.

Possibly.  On the other hand, it might simply be that many people are
not too keen on math.  Tell us truthfully, do you really want everyone
to be as smart as you?  :-)

: the programming world _did_ take a wrong turn somewhere
: when it can regard Perl and C++ as improvements on anything,

I admire your powers of simplification...

: and managing _not_ to point this out to an audience that is likely
: to have used both of them for practical purposes takes some discipline.

You've inadvertently hit the nail on the head.  Most ordinary folks feel
that abstraction just gets in the way of their getting practical work done.

I'd say that again, but it'd probably just land on top the first one.

: moreover, I think programming is perceived as "dirty", precisely because of
: languages like Perl and C++, so when Lisp is marketed as clean, elegant,
: simple, people who think they are experienced will think it's so much
: marketingese and baseless hype, and start out with an attitude of "oh,
: yeah?  prove it to me!", of course finding openings for a rebuttal.

I realize that Lisp is rather timeless, but there seems to be a bit of
chronological inversion in this analysis.  Lisp was there long before
Perl and C++.  Moreover (ain't that a great word for sounding scientific
with?), programming was regarded as "dirty" long before Perl and C++.
Furthermore, many honorable professions regard dirt as a badge of honor.

I can't speak for C++, but Perl is unabashedly blue-collar.  Maybe I
should go out and buy me a pickup truck.

: sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from sarcasm

Oh, gee, I thought you were being serious.  Nevermind...

Larry Wall
lwall@netlabs.com
