Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.lisp
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!dircon!rheged!simon
From: simon@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)
Subject: Re: Retro-Computing!
Message-ID: <D72ICA.4sF@rheged.dircon.co.uk>
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
Organization: none. Disorganization: total.
References: <D5yxwn.5BG@sdf.saomai.org> <MURPHY.95Apr4220807@world.std.com> <Pine.NXT.3.92.950404215056.1339G-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> <DLM.95Apr5115216@outpost.osf.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 08:31:21 GMT
Lines: 43

(Followups set to alt.folklore.computing, which seems the appropriate
place). 

In article <DLM.95Apr5115216@outpost.osf.org>,
Dan Murphy <dlm@outpost.osf.org> wrote:
>In article 
><Pine.NXT.3.92.950404215056.1339G-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
>Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM> writes:
>
>>    Dan, as I remember, everyone in the "macho programmer" discussion was a 
>>    TOPS-20 hacker (with the possible exception of C. Dunn)...  ;-)
>
>    Indeed.  I remember well all those you mentioned.  I thought it
>    was amusing that a bunch of TOPS20 folks would be carrying on
>    (facetiously of course) about the macho programming ideal, when
>    TOPS20 took exactly the opposite view -- using *or* programming
>    the system should be as easy as possible, and programmers
>    shouldn't have to remember lots of obscure sh*t to prove their
>    manhood.

Hmmm... speaking as (probably) one of the very few comp.lang.lisp
people still reading this discussion, I suspect this was the mistake.
Remember, most programmers are arrested-adolescent males. They work
long hours in air-conditioned offices, drink masses of caffeine and
eat junk food. They are seriously nerdy and unfit and consequently
have real hangups about their masculinity.

I confess I do like UN*X, because it's fairly powerful and
uncluttered, but when I compare it to the LISP machines I used ten
years ago it makes me weep -- it's like going back into the dark ages.
I've never used TOPS20 or TENEX or any of the other systems mentioned
in this discussion, but from what has been said I strongly suspect
that the reason they've lost out to UN*X is the same reason LISP has
lost out to C++ -- You Have To Be A REAL Man To Write C++. A seven
stone weakling can become a wizard if he can memorize all the more
obscure tricks of awk!



-- 
------- simon@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)
	
	...but have you *seen* the size of the world wide spider?
