Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
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From: vrotney@netcom.com (William Paul Vrotney)
Subject: Re: Lisp advocacy (Was Re: another take on "C is faster than lisp")
In-Reply-To: cyber_surfer@wildcard.demon.co.uk's message of Wed, 7 Sep 1994 16:25:09 +0000
Message-ID: <vrotneyCvutoq.MLt@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <33vlr1$2ud@info-server.bbn.com> <STEVE.94Aug30141513@baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov> <778584011snz@wildcard.demon.co.uk> <778955109snz@wildcard.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 08:46:02 GMT
Lines: 51

In article <778955109snz@wildcard.demon.co.uk> cyber_surfer@wildcard.demon.co.uk (Cyber Surfer) writes:

> In article <STEVE.94Aug30141513@baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>            steve@baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov "Steven Rezsutek" writes:
> > chyde@labs-n.bbn.com writes:
> > 
> >    I fail to understand why it is that the implementation language even
> >    needs to be mentioned.  we bid, we win, we implement, we support.  would
> >    you go over to Computer City and ask what language Microsoft Word is
> >    written in?  if they said ALGOL 60, would you buy something else
> >    instead? (you'd probably be more amazed that the words ALGOL 60 even
> >    came out of their mouth)
> > 
[...]

> I wonder if a comp.lang.lisp.advocacy (if it existed) would be a
> better place for debates like this? I'm just a little tired of adding
> threads like this one to my killfile.
[...]

As he goes on ...                (is Cyber a he or a she?)

> 
> I feel sure that this whole debate will look very silly to most
> programmers in 10 years time. It certainly bores the pants off me.
[...]

As he goes on and on with HIS version of boring stuff ...

Do you really think the "Great Lisp/C Debate" will be over in 10 years?  In
my circles it's been ranging for the LAST 10 years and it still doesn't seem
any MORE sillier. Besides, it's so much fun! If you are a good Lisp
programmer you can insinuate how stupid C programmers are.  If you are a
good C programmer you can insinuate how irresponsible Lisp programmers are.
If you are an "I've seen the light" C programmer you can insinuate how
misguided diehard Lisp programmers are. If you an "I've seen the light but
I've seen it again and come back to Lisp" you are now a good Lisp and C
programmer which entitles you to insinuate that anyone in back of you is
stupid. And it goes on and on.  Maybe someday another language will be added
to the fray. Currently its the Lisp-erals versus the C-servatives and
everyone in between. It's the mystery of the dialectic. Accept it.

But seriously, another thing that I liked out of this thread is Jeff
Dalton's standing up to Lisp bashing. I know, certain parties are going to
say "If you thought I was Lisp bashing, you didn't understand what I was
saying". I'm not accusing.  But hey, being critical of Lisp for the sake of
making Lisp better has a different tone, you know what I mean?


-- 
Bill Vrotney - vrotney@netcom.com
