Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!udel!rochester!mucit
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Subject: Re: DIM, CLIM or DK?!? (Was: Re: purify vs. gc)
In-Reply-To: marcoxa@mosaic.nyu.edu's message of 06 Feb 1995 14:39:28 GMT
Message-ID: <MUCIT.95Feb6204813@vein.cs.rochester.edu>
Sender: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Organization: University of Rochester, Dept. of Computer Science
References: <9501261016.aa28597@ax433.mclink.it> <MARCOXA.95Jan29145113@mosaic.nyu.edu>
	<3gj464$q4u@news.u.washington.edu>
	<MLY.95Jan31112136@fish.adoc.xerox.com>
	<MARCOXA.95Feb6093928@mosaic.nyu.edu>
Date: 07 Feb 1995 01:48:13 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <MARCOXA.95Feb6093928@mosaic.nyu.edu> marcoxa@mosaic.nyu.edu (Marco Antoniotti) writes:
[... good stuff about CLIM by another poster deleted]
>   The CLIM story is sad. First of all CLIM is a "de facto dead" standard
>   (with good peace of all the people working on it - sorry). While its
>   technical merit are excellent, its availability has been so restricted
>   (due to the lack of a "free" implementation) that I have serious doubts
>   that its influence is now felt, even in the CL community. 
[...]

Having actually written a researchy application in CLIM, I'll admit that I 
fail to see what's excellent about it.  My previous UI experience was coding
simple stuff in Xt+athena+C.  Apart from the regular/known advantages of using 
Lisp, I didn't find it to be exceptionally powerful.  I did (do) have this 
nasty feeling that I'm missing the point somehow when I use it though.
Is there a document somewhere that summarizes why CLIM has excellent
technical merit and maybe compares it to other systems?  The only reason
why I chose it over Garnet in my project was because the Garnet people 
announced that they would concentrate on their new Amulet (C++) project, and 
that CLIM is the only common system (both?) Common Lisp vendors 'support.'  
(Support in '' because one thing I did was to look at both CLIM and Garnet 
documentation.  I would have thought that we'd bought Garnet, and ftp'ed CLIM
going by the quality of the documentation alone.  Excellent job, Garnet 
people.)

Maybe if more people were convinced that CLIM is excellent, more would use it 
and it would evolve.     

yes I know this is the wrong newsgroup.

cheers,

-M

