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From: jqb@netcom.com (Jim Balter)
Subject: Re: Sorities, Properties and The Extensional Stance
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References: <850583038snz@longley.demon.co.uk> <850677786snz@longley.demon.co.uk> <592666$eq3@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <850763548snz@longley.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:06:52 GMT
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Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.ai.philosophy:50068 comp.ai:42832

In article <850763548snz@longley.demon.co.uk>,
David Longley <David@longley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Oh.. I see, Quine misunderstands it too.....
>
>    'In general the underlying methodology of the idioms  of 
>    propositional  attitude  contrasts strikingly  with  the 
>    spirit of objective science at its most  representative. 
>    For consider again quotation, direct and indirect.  When 
>    we quote a man's utterance directly we report it  almost 
>    as  we  might  a  bird  call.  However  significant  the 
>    utterance, direct quotation merely reports the  physical 
>    incident and leaves any implications to us.

Since the implications to us are what counts, whereas that is not the case
with bird calls, it seems quite evident that Quine is misunderstanding.

>    On the other 
>    hand  in  indirect quotation we project  ourselves  into 
>    what, from his remarks and other indications, we imagine 
>    the  speaker's state of mind to have been, and  then  we 
>    say  what, in our language, is natural and relevant  for 
>    us  in the state thus feigned. 

None of this is avoided in direct quotation, unless no one who understands the
language in which the quotation is written is considered.  If Longley read
what Quine wrote, or if he read what I said Quine wrote, *Longley* does
interpretion, and it is this interpretation that is the most critical link.

To obtain only the extensional aspects of Quine's statements, he would have
had to have written them in Urdu.

It is quite obvious to me that Quine is mistaken, and that position is
supported by Longley's attempts to change my mind by the mere act of repeating
the quotation, as if it were a matter of operant conditioning to get me to sit
up for certain bird calls.  What Longley doesn't seem able to accept or
comprehend is that "This quote shows that Quine does not misunderstand" is a
very severe form of "says that".  And if Longley isn't willing to say that
because it would put him in that trap, it just shows what an intellectual
coward he is.
-- 
<J Q B>

