Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,comp.ai,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.philosophy.meta,alt.memetics,alt.extropians
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!nb.rockwell.com!mrbig!glass
From: glass@mrbig.rockwell.com (Jim Glass)
Subject: Re: A New Theory of Free Will -- continuation of an Open Letter to Professor Penrose
Message-ID: <1996Feb20.152827.14884@nb.rockwell.com>
Sender: glass@mrbig (Jim Glass)
Organization: Rockwell Info Sys
References: <4el6ee$4t6@brtph500.bnr.ca> <4g5gse$qlq@nkosi.well.com> <Pine.SUN.3.91.960219014344.12599A-100000@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu> <Dn2r5q.D00@cf.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:28:27 GMT
Lines: 52
Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu sci.physics:172282 comp.ai:37173 comp.ai.philosophy:37988 sci.philosophy.meta:24895

In article <Dn2r5q.D00@cf.ac.uk>, John HERBERT <herbert@cf.ac.uk> writes:
|> I am a newcomer to the Internet. 
|> Two points on determinism. I hope these are not FAQ
|> a) I am sometimes faced with choices before I act. What evaluates the 
|> choice in my brain/mind?

Good question. A dyed-in-the-wool determinist (like me) would simply ask,
"what caused you to make that 'decision', i.e., what was the causal
chain leading your 'evaluator' to evaluate thusly?"

|> It doesn't matter whether I call it a drive which evaluates or not. If it 
|> is called a drive, what brings into play the drive and ad infinitum?
|> b) A potential electric current sparks in my neurons. This potential 
|> travels down to the dendrites at the end of which are sacs containing a 
|> complicated assembly of biochemicals. Quantum fields around the atoms of 
|> these biochemicals are absolutely indeterminate and this indeterminacy 
|> results in the transmitting of the biochemicals across the synaptic gaps 
|> between the neurons. Without this indeterminacy, no mental activity can 
|> occur.

Uh...convince me.  It is by no means obvious to me that "quantum fields around
the atoms of these biochemicals are absolutely indeterminate", or that the
"indeterminacy results in the transmitt[al] of the biochemicals".  I seem to 
dimly recall from old Scientific American articles that the synaptic gush of
biochemicals is pretty mechanistic; i.e., if there is an electrical signal, the
synapse gives with the chemicals and that's all there is to it.


|>  This phenomenon in b) allied to the exercise of choice in a) baffles me. 
|> I cannot understand that this is mechanistic. 

I think your bafflement is a result of a misapprehension of the mechanism.

|> In addition of course, the exercising of a mental  choice whether to move 
|> this muscle or that muscle before it is exercised  and before there is 
|> any movement (and the spiking of the neurons which  takes place 
|> approximately .25 seconds before any movement) seems to me to indicate an 
|> agency which is not a mechanistic drive.
|> Please explain. John.

Again, what "caused" the "choice"?

As I mentioned before, when someone asserts that she has free will, I translate
this as:

"My outputs are not functions of my inputs!"

To which the obvious question is then: "Very well, then: what ARE your outputs
functions of?"


Jim Glass
