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From: jimgm@netcom.com (Jim Miller)
Subject: Re: Free Will
Message-ID: <jimgmDMAt66.5BK@netcom.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:30:06 GMT
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elabonte@ix.netcom.com(Edward LaBonte ) from Netcom wrote:

>In <1996Jan25.172014.1140@media.mit.edu> minsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin
>Minsky) writes: 

>>>I really wonder how much our behavior actually is influenced by our
>>>ethical justifications. You seem to accept the fact that freedom of
>>>will is a myth. Have you noticed that your acceptance of this fact
>has
>>>made you any less responsible? The fact remains that our behavior has
>>>consequences and those consequences have an effect on our (future)
>>>behavior.
>>
>>Yes, I think that my rejection of the freedom-of-will myth has made me
>>less responsible, in the sense that I'm become much less sure about
>ethical
>>questions.  The result is that I more often ask other people what they
>>think, rather than make my own decision.  Paradoxically, of course, I
>>*feel* less constrained and more free.

[...]

>But my own experience is that most people, whether they believe in free
>will or not are able to maintain strong moral and ethical standards if
>it is in their nature to do so. Different people respond differently to
>ethical questions and I think the whole issue is one of emotion rather
>than reason. If I feel strongly about a situation the whole issue of
>'free will' becomes irrelevent.

[...]

>I had read something similar somewhere. I think it might have been in
>'Free Inquiry' or 'Skeptic'. But that was definitely a case of concious
>deceit on the part of Hubbard. There's no question of whether or not he
>believed his own myth. But it would seem that if we were to apply the
>same methods to ourselves to create a new mythical justification for
>morality it would involve self deceit, on a certain level.
>
>Personally, I don't think it's necessary. Most people find their own
>reasons for behaving ethically. Self-interest ain't all that its
>cracked up to be. Selfish behavior makes me feel isolated from other
>people. Being a social animal I need a feeling of connectedness. It's a
>sort of healthy insecurity, I think.


After I got interested in the mind-brain question and the issue of
freedom of will, and after I felt compelled to accept that that
freedom is a myth, I went through many years of trying to reconcile
that acceptance with the need to be good, and issues of effort and
successfulness and happiness...and still am.  It seems reasonable
to me now to just accept that there are factors which make an ethical
life possible despite a conscious denial of freedom of will.  The
various cultural mechanisms that most of us are exposed to since
birth, in particular an upbringing where the essential, "good" values
are instilled, do most of the work of giving us a conscience, I
think.  Penal systems are another big factor in keeping us "in line".
This entails that young children should not be encouraged to think
about these issues until after the critical, formative period of
morals has passed, something which young children probably aren't
equipped to do, anyway.  I think that if you already basically have
good will towards other people, you'll weather out the conflict.

Whether or not a whole society of people could pass this conflict
and survive as a society is a question I often wonder about.

-jim

-- 
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