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From: ccb8m@opal.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles C. Bundy)
Subject: Re: Brain and Body aspects of same thing.  Mind and Matter defined in more basic terms.
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 14:47:19 GMT
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In article <4cu3ql$mok@aladdin.iii.org.tw> bs <ajax@freedomnet.com> writes:
>complex than the body.  but just as my actions are bounded by simple laws 
>of physics, my brain is functioning according to the simpler limits of 
>the body.

Ever look at a biochemical pathway chart?  You make a lot of uninformed
assumptions about complexity.

>
>what does this mean?  lets say some talented doctors came in overnight, 
>took off my leg, and put on a new one that looked, felt, and acted just 
>like the old one, except that it was made of electronics and fake skin.  
>i get up in the morning, walk around, and notice nothing pecular.  to me, 
>i am the same person, because to me, nothing has changed.  now lets say 

Hmm?  First you say that doctors come in and change you (electronics &
fake skin)  Then you say you notice nothing peculiar because nothing
has changed.  Make up your mind.  Either it has changed, is in a state
of flux, or it hasn't. (stable, metastable, unstable)

>the same is done with one of my eyes.  still, i am the same person, 
>nothing to me has changed.  

Not hardly, you are now dependent upon non-biological organs.  I don't
consider this the "same" or follow how "nothing has changed".

>is changed?  well, my brain and body are really just aspects of the same 
>thing, so it would be just like having my leg replaced.  

What is this "same thing"  and how is the brain related to the body?  I
consider it a miracle that I go from the intangible desire to the
physical realization of that desire.  At which point are we considering
the brain an organ vs. the metaphysical mind?  How do we get from thinking
about reaching for a cup of coffee to the physical manifestation?  You
might say that I have this physical "need" for coffee, but I challenge
you to divorce physical need from metaphysical need.  If it were pure
physics I would be slurping coffee rather than meandering on this topic.

>
>what about the whole brain?  same thing, nothing to me will have changed. 

Bull shit.

> i am the same person.  this example is probably familiar to most reading 

"Same person"? Maybe, maybe not.  The example isn't familiar, nor is it 
well grounded in reason.  Too many variables and unknowns.  Thus you
haven't proved anything because of this lack of baseline.

>...
>
>some criteria for the comparison to be made.  and what if my comparison 
>is "actually" incorrect.  i can't be incorrect _until_ i _realize_ that i 
>am incorrect.

Lots of dead people who didn't realize they made a mistake, eh?  I don't
think personal realization plays a part in this game.

>
>even define consciousness themselves.  as long as you are able to define 
>what something is, you can make something that exists as that thing.  if 
>you cannot define something, then how do you even know what you are 
>talking about?

Exactly, so define everything you've been talking about before continuing...

>
>thus, if my whole body was replaced with an exact replica, not only would 

What do you mean by "exact replica"?  A machine?  Sorry it isn't exact.
A biological copy?  Then it isn't a replica, it's YOU physically speaking.
We have no way of measuring the mental duplication.

If only it were as simple as "wishing" something to be so.  Dorthy click
you heels three times and repeat "There's no place like home."

Charles C. Bundy IV 
ccb8m@virginia.edu
