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From: stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Greg Stevens)
Subject: Re: Thought Question
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Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 18:43:09 GMT
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In <3f4k1d$8ae@news.u.washington.edu> forbis@cac.washington.edu (Gary Forbis ) writes:
>In article <1995Jan12.184559.2530@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Greg Stevens) writes:

>{Text deleted]

>|> While it is an interesting thought experiment, and brings up the point that
>|> there is no evolutionary benefit to consciousness (as natural selection acts
>|> on behaviors not thoughts), it is assuming that organisms and responsiveness
>|> CAN arise without subjective perception.  People say, "Well, I can imagine
>|> an organism with no subjectivity but still behaving as I do..." but is
>|> it possible?
>|> 
>|> At one point people could imagine birds talking, when their physiological
>|> make-ups prevent them from making sounds like that, and people could imagine
>|> dis-embodied minds, when current theories about mind arising from brain
>|> function would declare that impossible.  Just because we can imagine it
>|> doesn't even mean, I would hold, that it is LOGICALLY possible.

>I'm not sure I understand your argument.  The question isn't about disembodied
>minds it's about mindless brains.  

I know, I was asserting that the fact that people say that they can imagine
a brain without a mind does not consistute evidence that it is even possible,
and I gave as an analogous situation people's imaginings of minds without
body/brains.

>Is there something about brains that make
>minds logically necessary?  If so, is it the structure or the physics?  Upon
>what evidence does one base one's opinion?

I wasn't asserting an opinion that required evidence, because my opinion
was merely that it is an interesting question. :-)

It is structurally, physically or logically  possible (in order of increasing
constraint assumed about the universe) for brains to exhibit the kind
of structural complexity they do WITHOUT the emergence of consciousness/
awareness?

Do you have an opinion on this?

Greg Stevens

stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu

