Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,talk.religion.newage,alt.atheism,alt.pagan,alt.consciousness
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news2.near.net!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!prodigal.psych.rochester.edu!stevens
From: stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Greg Stevens)
Subject: Re: Reality...??? Purpose of Life...???
Message-ID: <1994Dec30.002000.12778@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: prodigal.psych.rochester.edu
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
References: <3bsvkd$drr@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> <3c5bl1$lrd@dns1.NMSU.Edu> <LScxkqpfaBHS072yn@sleepy.aes.mb.doe.ca> <1994Dec15.054233.27706@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <blaine-2812942129000001@prevost.islandnet.com> <1994Dec29.155440.24624@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <3dvg7s$6i1@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 94 00:20:00 GMT
Lines: 58

<3dvg7s$6i1@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> roose@ix.netcom.com (Richard Roose) writes:
>In <1994Dec29.155440.24624@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> 
>stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Greg Stevens) writes: 
>>In <blaine-2812942129000001@prevost.islandnet.com> blaine@IslandNet.com 
>(F. Blaine Dickson) writes:

>>>My view is that reality is a product of your beliefs, and the purpose 
>>>of life is self-fulfillment through your personal reality; be all you can 
>>>be.  This is accomplished through creativity. Create as you have been 
>>>created.

>>Note to R. Roose: You see?  It isn't that people don't understand 
>>reality or think about reality.  "Common people," as you've called them, 
>>ARE philosophers, and have their folk theories about reality, their 
>>functional models.  Just because they may not understand the reality YOU 
>>work by doesn't mean they are ignorant or apathetic about the philosophical 
>>issues.

>I believe in Santa Clause.  Does that make Santa Clause REAL?  How the 
>F*** come he didn't leave me any presents this year.

Many people have beliefs which at some point predict events which do not
come to pass.  People either abandon their beliefs or they append clauses
onto their belief system.  If you think about it, this is all that progressive
scientific method is, too.  Science makes predictions -- if the predictions
come to pass, good; if not, they either say the theory is wrong, or they 
assume that some other factor not accounted for in the current (then 
assumed, incomplete) model effected the outcome, and they hypothesize
additional premises.

If you believed in the existence of some being (Santa, God, whatever)
and nothing refuted its existence, it might as well be real for you --
your life will be led the same way independent of its existence based on
your belief.  If you epxect something to happen based on this things
existence (presents, miracles, whatever) and these things don't happen,
you can either think of reasons (you weren't good ENOUGH, God works in
mysterious ways, whatever) or abandon the belief.

Isn't this what all science does?

>I believe if I throw you off of a cliff, and if you and I had enough 
>faith, you will be able to fly.  Want to try it? 

No, because *I* don't believe it.  But peope *HAVE* willingly committed
suicide because of their belief in the afterlife.

>Wake up and smell the shit you are floundering in!

Well, since I don't BELIEVE I am, in fact, floundering in shit, and since
none of my experiences are inconsistent with the predictions I'd make
based on the world-view that I am NOT floundering in shit, according
to my personal world view, it is TRUE that I am not floundering in shit.
Care to point something out that *IS* inconsistant with this world-view?

Greg Stevens

stevens@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu

