From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!torn!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uwm.edu!ogicse!pnl-oracle!duke!d3g637 Fri Oct 30 15:17:45 EST 1992
Article 7405 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: d3g637@pnl.gov (David P. Chassin)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Simulated Brain
Message-ID: <1992Oct27.182833.15332@oracle.pnl.gov>
Date: 27 Oct 92 18:28:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Oct27.182833.15332
References: <1992Oct27.112157.24723@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>
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In article 7920 of comp.ai.philosophy on 2 Oct 92 22:47:35 GMT M.Thomas
made some statements that I want to comment.

>   But, when a person is "damaged" and regions of the brain are destroyed
>(say a stroke, for example) the "person" or that "thing" which you call
>a "soul" that I would call the Mind does not change. Yes, a persons
>ability to speak or move or remember may be damaged (and relearned) but
>the "I" or the Mind remain the same.

I know someone who was hit by a car.  His frontal area was damaged. When
he recovered (after about 6 months) he had become another person.  He sometimes
even refers to his previous self in the third person (although I'm not sure he's
not just being humorous).  This would seem to support the thesis that the
mind (or soul) is structural and therefore a result of the current "wiring" of
the brain. Change the wiring and you change to mind.

>But
>that "I" or Mind seems to continue when part of this machine we call the 
>brain is damaged... Perhaps another example is this: when you sleep at
>night (or in class) your Mind is still active... your brain has shut down
>regions (say sight, and sound). These areas are "shut down" by the fact
>that external stimulus is not influencing their operation... So what
>about when you dream? Well, your "Mind" or that "I" then influences areas
>of your brain to result in sound and sight.. etc... 

In my experience outside stimuli do affect me in my sleep and they do have
a noticeable result on my dreams.  I can't attribute this to being a light
sleeper because I am not.



In article 24723@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE, erlebach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Thomas Erlebach) writes:


>The thing the brain is doing what I think is so amazing is: It makes
>me have emotions and feelings. And I want to find out how these feelings
>come into existance. I want to know whether if I build a machine that
>has the same functionality as the human brain, but is made of different
>material and has a different architecture, this machine has the same
>quality of life, the same feelings and emotions as I do.
>

I have favored the belief that emotions do not originate in the brain, but
they are, rather, the body's way of communicating essential context information
to the lowest levels of the brain.  When you feel excited about something, is
it not plausible that it is your body that is excited first, and tells the
brain so?  Certainly if I were to design a brain and a body in which it is
to reside, I might intend such a relation to exist, in order to guarantee a
proper "balance of power".  Besides the stimuli are not just the six senses (sight,
sound, touch, taste, smell, and proprioception), but also host of other
specific "states" which constitute a kind of short hand for the brain
to interpret what other organs mean/want/expect from what they are currently doing.
Finally, we mustn't forget the effect of hormones.  There is a very wide array of
them, and their effect is often completely overwhelming to even the most rational
and disciplined mind.  They are also a part of the perception system, and cannot
be discounted when discussing personality (which, along with self-awareness may
be the basis of the sense of "I").

We have to be careful of falling too readily into any of a variety of mind-body
dualities.  Don't forget that although our brains seem to be distinct from
our bodies, this is likely only a by-product of self-awareness (aside: could this be
used as a definition for self-awareness?) and so we should take care not to assume
that it is necessarily so.  Therefore, I don't see how we can talk about 
simulating the brain, without discussing the degree to which the brain and the
body, as two sides of the same coin, may be inextricably linked.


        David P. Chassin
        Email: dp_chassin@pnl.gov           "Life is either a daring
        Vox: (509)375-4369                    adventure or nothing"
        Fax: (509)375-3614                           - Helen Keller


