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Article 5940 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke)
Subject: Re: figure/grounding
Message-ID: <1992May27.122822.18483@cs.ucf.edu>
Keywords: mind matter quantum
Sender: news@cs.ucf.edu (News system)
Organization: University of Central Florida
References: <l2516pINNmci@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 27 May 1992 12:28:22 GMT
Lines: 51

In article <l2516pINNmci@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric  
Silber) writes:
> In article <1992May25.214006.29965@Princeton.EDU>  
harnad@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Stevan Harnad) writes:
> ....
> >it is no more justified in the case of the TTT robot than in the case
> >of the real plane to imagine that the "transduction" is just a trivial
> >interface to a "core" that is just computing: The innards of the robot
> >could very well be mostly analog transduction all the way through, as
> >in the case of the plane. (And "analog" does not just mean continuous
> >as opposed to discrete, but physical, as in the case of an airplane, as
>                              ^^^^^^^^
> >opposed to symbolic, as in the case of computations that are merely
>             ^^^^^^^^
> >interpretable as if they were an airplane.)
> 
>  Until you come up with a new physical theory of the universe which
>  dispenses with or explains away the wave-particle co-equal aspects of
>  all 'stuff' that exists in the universe,  the disjunction and opposition
>  between 'physical stuff' and 'symbolic stuff' remains vacuous.

I don't understand your point.  Are you saying that waves are physical and
particles are symbolic?

Waves and particles are both physical.  To be more precise, they 
are classical concepts whose exact meaning in terms of quantum theory 
has been fiercely debated for the past 60 years.

Symbols are linguistic/philosophical.  The current discusion about 
grounding etc. would be just as meaningful if quantum mechanics had
not been discovered (invented for non-idealists) and the point at 
issue was the possible consciousness of Babbage's latest engine.

As I am fond of pointing out, the philosophical problems of
quantum mechanics provide convenient loopholes for Harnad's grounding
(and even Searle's powers) to operate without postulating undiscovered
physical mechanisms.  

Quantum philosophers have to reason very fast to keep mind/consciousness
out of matter.  The current debate shows that philosophers of the mind
have to reason sharply to keep physics out of the mind.  Perhaps
it is time to admit the possibility that mind and matter may be 
inextricably mixed up in some mysterious way.

--
Thomas Clarke
Institute for Simulation and Training
University of Central Florida
12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826
(407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059
clarke@acme.ucf.edu


