From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!psych.toronto.edu!michael Mon Mar  9 18:35:10 EST 1992
Article 4258 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Path: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!psych.toronto.edu!michael
>From: michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar)
Subject: Re: Definition of Understanding
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
References: <EdgwVzO00Uh7Q40SVx@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Mar4.151700.15282@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <1992Mar4.205642.26955@psych.toronto.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1992 20:56:42 GMT

In article <1992Mar4.151700.15282@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> pindor@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Andrzej Pindor) writes:
>In article <EdgwVzO00Uh7Q40SVx@andrew.cmu.edu> Franklin Boyle <fb0m+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>Well, as a first step, let's say that every time a noun occurs in
>>one of the rules used to process the Chinese Room input, the person
>>in the room is required to draw an instance of that category.
>>I suggest this as a starting point for an objective analysis of
>>understanding because subjectively I seem to mental image a tree, 
>>for example, when I here or see the word "tree".  I feel that I 
>>"understand" (modulo the rest of the context) what is being talked 
>>about when this word comes up in a sentence in part because I am
>>able to mental image it, and given pencil and paper, 
>>I can draw it.  Unfortunately, I cannot say the same when I see 
>>and hear Chinese or Hungarian.  I do not mental image a tree when
>>symbols that are meant to designate it come up, and I would not be 
>>inclined to draw it.  I simply cannot get that information 
>>out of the structures of the symbols which are arbitrary with respect 
>>to those of their referents.
>>
>Please note that to answer the questions in Chinese, CR has to have a database
>of information about the objects in the story (as SHRDLU program uses). If
>you want to be able CR to draw a hamburger, you have to agree that the database
>shoud also include visual information (like you have such an information, other-
>wise you won't be able to draw a tree, agreed?). Then, when encountering word
>'hamburger' in the story CR would access all info it had about hamburgers, 
>including what it looks like. Do you see any problem here? 

Nope, except for the implicit assumption that the way in which a hamburger
looks would be represented in a fashion that the man in the CR could
understand (can *you* read a videodisc?).

The CR may know what a hamburger looks like.  The man *still* doesn't
know what Chinese symbol refers to hamburger.

- michael



