From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!pindor Thu Jan 16 17:21:59 EST 1992
Article 2742 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Path: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!pindor
>From: pindor@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Andrzej Pindor)
Subject: Re: Penrose on Man vs. Machine
Message-ID: <1992Jan15.190833.27578@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCS Public Access
References: <1992Jan9.211337.14379@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> <5939@skye.ed.ac.uk> <1992Jan13.230532.26592@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> <1992Jan14.040820.26868@unixg.ubc.ca> <375@tdatirv.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1992 19:08:33 GMT

In article <375@tdatirv.UUCP> sarima@tdatirv.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>we do not have an adequate definition of such terms as 'understanding'.
>
>If we had:
>	1 - a definition of understanding that gave an *objective* criterion
>	    for determining if some entity had understanding,
>
>and	2 - a reasonable model for how the CR might go about acomplishing its
>	    amazing feat of Chinese dialog,
>
>then we could determine if indeed the CR so constituted did indeed understand
>Chinese.
>
Couldn't agree more. However, the term 'understanding' is widely and effectively
used on the basis of an operational definition (correct answers to a set of 
test questions) and there is no reason why not to keep using it this way till
something more precise is devised. On the other hand rejecting this practical
definition without providing at least a semblance of alternative (see 1. above)
is a prescription for endless futile jaw-jaw (or rather tap-tap here).

>Until then the question is undecidable in principle, since the two principle
>components of the question are ill-defined.   I believe that language
>performance is such a difficult problem that only 'true understanding' is
>capable of solving it, Searle disagrees.   Who is right?  I have no idea,
>and neither does anyone else - it is all opinion at this point.
>
>-- 
>---------------
>uunet!tdatirv!sarima				(Stanley Friesen)
>
Agree again.



-- 
Andrzej Pindor
University of Toronto
Computing Services
pindor@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca


