From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!aunro!ukma!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!ogicse!das-news. Thu Feb 20 15:20:41 EST 1992
Article 3723 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Xref: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca comp.ai.philosophy:3723 sci.philosophy.tech:2142
Path: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.ecf!utgpu!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!aunro!ukma!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!ogicse!das-news.
harvard.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!zariski!zeleny
>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.philosophy.tech
Subject: Re: Robotic Follies (was re: Strong AI and Panpsy
Message-ID: <1992Feb14.010922.8804@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 14 Feb 92 06:09:20 GMT
References: <13375@pitt.UUCP> <1992Feb12.111939.8749@husc3.harvard.edu> <13398@pitt.UUCP>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
Lines: 79
Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu

In article <13398@pitt.UUCP> 
geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:

>In article <1992Feb12.111939.8749@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

GB:
>>>theories a type of "literature".  Hopefully he will soon join
>>                  	      	     ^^^^^^^^^
>>>Marx in the dustbin of history.

MZ:
>>Pardon this presumption of a non-native English speaker, but you should
>>have written `I hope...'.

GB:
>Often non-native speakers tend to be quite schoolmarmish about rules
>that we local hicks have sense enough to ignore.  

By the same token, you local hicks often tend to be quite oblivious of any
ironic subtext that might underlie the most casual grammatic reference.

MZ:
>>It never fails to impress me to what extent one's antipathy towards Freud
>>is conditioned by one's political leanings.  False consciousness, indeed.

GB:
>It isn't the similarity of their political philosophies, but their speculative
>methods and confabulation that I dislike.

I agree: it's common knowledge that Freud spent every minute of his
association with Charcot shooting cocaine and reading anonymous Victorian
smut.  Likewise, the vast empirical data collected in the course of his
Viennese practice concerns only neurotic middle-class Jewish women, and
is ipso facto irrelevant to the rest of the world.

GB:
>                                           I certainly never thought
>of Freud as being leftish or radical politically.  Almost the opposite,
>actually.

I certainly never thought that your opinion about Freud's politics had any
weight whatsoever as factual evidence thereof.  Furthermore, the issue here
is not his political views (which are certainly not conservative in any
meaningful sense of the term), but the use that was made of his theories by
various political movements.  It's a fact that Freud's writings were
actively prohibited by the Fascists, the Communists, and the Catholic
Church.  Likewise, the US political right is certainly not fond of him, --
just check out "The National Review".  As for the radicals appreciating
good old Siggy, I direct your attention to the surrealists and Tel Quel.

GB:
>	   You seem to share the same flaw if you think you can deduce
>my political leanings from that remark.  It might be interesting to hear
>what you think they are, if so.

Oh, it's not just that remark, it's Freud and Marx together in "the dustbin
of history".  There's something about the people who would have such hopes
or expectations of theories and ideas, that strikes me as quite obviously
reactionary.

>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------


`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
: Qu'est-ce qui est bien?  Qu'est-ce qui est laid?         Harvard   :
: Qu'est-ce qui est grand, fort, faible...                 doesn't   :
: Connais pas! Connais pas!                                 think    :
:                                                             so     :
: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
: 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707                                   :
: Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139           (617) 661-8151            :
: email zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu or zeleny@HUMA1.BITNET            :
:                                                                    :
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`


