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Article 3510 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: zeleny@widder.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.philosophy.tech
Subject: Re: jibing, dedekind cuts, and "noumenalia"
Summary: an amazingly flame-free exchange
Message-ID: <1992Feb5.154626.8512@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 5 Feb 92 20:46:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Feb5.154626.8512
References: <1992Feb5.005652.8488@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Feb5.144212.7334@uwm.edu>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
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In article <1992Feb5.144212.7334@uwm.edu> 
hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:

>From article <1992Feb5.005652.8488@husc3.harvard.edu>, 
>by zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny):

>> In article <kou7j3INNaqa@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> 
>> silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Silber) writes:

>>>In article <1992Feb4.163434.8471@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>>>zeleny@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

BB:
>>> What are your sources of knowledge besides experience and introspection?

MZ:
>>> Noumenal perception of the universals.

ES:
>>> Having dispensed with not only the reduction of thought and reference,
>>>butalso with even a tangible approach to thought and reference, it would seem
>>> that MZ has proved an anti-cogito and left us confined within a domain
>>> populated only by refutation and soupcons.  "Noumenal perception of
>>> the universals" conjures up some kind of spiritualism .

MP:
>Yo --
>
>Spiritualism barely covers it since 'noumenal' precludes 'perception'
>-- except, I suppose, for intellectual intuitions.  
>
>Right.... 

You are absolutely right, Mark: I was thinking of G\"odel's assertion that
"despite their remoteness from sense experience, we do have something like
a perception also of the objects of set theory, as is seen from the fact
that the axioms force themselves upon us as being true".  `Noumenal
apprehension' is, of course, the correct term to use for designating this
faculty; `noumenal intuition' would do for an anti-Kantian.

MP:
>I think it would be relatively safe to assume that Mikhail was pulling
>your leg a little, and/or just testing the waters to see if you've
>read any Kant.
>
>
>Noumenal perceptions, MZ??  ;-)

In fact, I wasn't pulling anyone's leg any more than is my wont, --if you
wish to follow Kant in rejecting the very possibility of our having a
perception-like noumenal faculty, I certainly won't stand in your way;
however, in this matter my sympathies lie with the views of Plato, Russell,
and G\"odel.

>hiho
>-- 
>mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
>dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        
>
>    "The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves."


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