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Article 2137 of comp.ai.philosophy:
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>From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,sci.philosophy.tech
Subject: Re: Semantic Conventions
Message-ID: <1991Dec15.121816.6594@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 15 Dec 91 17:18:14 GMT
References: <1991Dec13.013107.6496@husc3.harvard.edu> <1Z7XcB2w164w@elrond.toppoint.de>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
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In article <1Z7XcB2w164w@elrond.toppoint.de> 
freitag@elrond.toppoint.de (Claus Schoenleber) writes:

>zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

>>freitag@elrond.toppoint.de (Claus Schoenleber) writes:

CS:
>>>Maybe "meaning" is association between a (more or less) complex symbol and
>>>some environmental event. Now, can't that be done by a sufficient complex
>>>syntactical rule system? There is nothing said about whether the acting
>>>machine is intelligent or simulates, it would behave like an intelligent
>>>system.

MZ: 
>>How would the "meaning" (environmental association) of the explicans, i.e.
>>"a sufficient complex syntactical rule system" be given, except by more
>>complex syntactical rule systems, etc.?  So sorry, but meaning is still not
>>syntactical.

CS:
>I tried to get some echo about the term "meaning". It is still undefined in
>that discussion.

Meaning is what a term stands for.  There is no other definition.

SC:
>Why is it necessary to seperate "syntax" from "semantics"? You don't seperate
>time from space, eh? They are different, o.k., but they belong to each other.

For the same reason one separates form from content.

CS:
>1. How can you get semantics without any form of syntax?

Mind reading.

CS:
>2. How can you get syntax without any form of semantics?

Chess.

CS:
>"syntax" and "semantics" are neither equal nor independent from each other.

Agreed.

CS:
>There is a relation between syntax and semantics, and the question is: which?

For a suggestion of an answer, try an elementary course in model theory.

CS:
>But still there is my question: What is "meaning"? While there is no proper
>definition, it seems, that "semantics" or "meaning" are mysterious lifebelts
>preventing humans from being drowned in the stormy sea of "mindless machines".
>;-)

See above.

>Regards,
>
>Claus.

cheers,
mz

>p.s.:
>
>There is no way to understand semantics, you get only used to it. (Couldn't
>resist; beg your pardon, Mr. v. Neumann!) ;-)

I submit that Johnny knew his math very well indeed.

>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Claus Schoenleber                      freitag@elrond.toppoint.de
>2300 Kiel 1  
>Germany					 +49 431 18863 (voice, Q)
>=================================================================
>        "And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is 
>          has left the path of wisdom" (Gandalf the Grey)
>=================================================================


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