From newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!ists!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!pitt!geb Mon Dec 16 11:00:56 EST 1991
Article 2020 of comp.ai.philosophy:
Xref: newshub.ccs.yorku.ca rec.arts.books:11409 sci.philosophy.tech:1370 comp.ai.philosophy:2020
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>From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.tech,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Zeleny (was Re: Searle
Message-ID: <12637@pitt.UUCP>
Date: 10 Dec 91 20:52:23 GMT
References: <1991Dec3.181458.18420@cherokee.uswest.com> <1991Dec8.180409.6324@husc3.harvard.edu> <1991Dec9.161328.16412@cherokee.uswest.com>
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Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.
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In article <1991Dec9.161328.16412@cherokee.uswest.com> ken@dakota (Kenny Chaffin) writes:
>In article <1991Dec8.180409.6324@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:
>>
>>KAC:
>>>	Right, but that is only a level of abstraction, a method of 
>>>communicating, and a shared semantics. It has no bearing on the fact that
>>>symbols either represent something or not.
>>
>>Symbolic representation presupposes semantics.
>>
>	Does it?
>	Surely animal's have symbols in their minds of things, does this also
>include having semantics? Bee's for instance communicate with one another 
>through a dance. Do bees attach meaning to the various "words" and symbols in
>their dance?

I think the only symbol involved here is our confabulating one in
trying to understand what the bees do.  The bees have semantics without
symbols.  The dance conveys a meaning, but I don't see the justification
in calling the dance a symbol.  I think it is very unlikely that the
dance could be the subject of introspection by the bee either.



-- 
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Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
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