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From: bs <ajax@freedomnet.com>
Subject: Re: Brain and Body aspects of same thing.  Mind and Matter defined in more basic terms.
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:33:57 GMT
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Eugene Khutoryansky <ekhutory@glibm9.cen.uiuc.edu> wrote:
[...]
>So all of your analysis holds for a driver/car as well. 

yes, the car would be part of the driver.  when you are driving, you do 
not think of doing things the normal way, you do them as they pertain 
to the car.  when an object darts out on the road, you are not 
concerned immediately about whether or not it will hit you, but whether 
or not it will hit the _car_.  the car becomes an extension of you.  

but the fact that the two can be distinguished makes them different.  you 
know you can open the door and walk out of a car(except while its 
driving), but you can't just take out an artificial liver so easily.  and 
more importantly, if you did not know tha




 But no reason to 
>stop there.  Every object you have ever interacted with can be thought of 
>in this manner.  For example, a book you read a year ago can be 
>considered a physical part of you.  You influence the book (you 
>can flip it's pages and move it around) and it influences you (what you 
>think about).  So why do you have to think of "you" and the book as two 
>seperate systems.  No reason.  In fact this arguement can be extended to 
>include every object in the Universe.  You can potentially interact with 
>all of them, you have influence over them and they have influence over 
>you.  In fact the entire Universe is really just one big unified system.  
>Why do you believe that your brain/body is somehow a seperate entity from 
>the rest of it.  So following you analysis to the logical conclution, we 
>have to conclude that the stars in the sky are just as much a part of you 
>as is your hand (be it the one you were born with or an artificial one).
>
>Well, something doesn't sound quite right about this conclution to me.  
>Maybe it really is the correct conclution, but let's proceed with the 
>assumtion that this conclution is incorrect.  So then I would have to say 
>that there is a cuttoff point between what "I" am and what "I" am not.  I 
>would have to say that "I" am not the car and for similar reasons "I" am 
>not the body either.  The way I determin this is by drawing an imaginary 
>closed surface and asking wether or not what I think that "I" am is 
>inside of it.  If the answer is yes, then whatever is outside of it is 
>not "me".  If I draw it around my brain and body but leave the car 
>outside, then "I" am still included and so "I" am not the car.  If I 
>include my brain and body but leave out one arm, "I" am still inside it, 
>so I am not the arm.  However, If I draw it around my entire body from 
>the neck down but leave the head out, I have to say that whatever it is I 
>think that "I" am is now not included in the closed surface, so what ever 
>"I" am has to be something above the neck.  I could continue repeating 
>the process untill finally, I only include the brain and leave everything 
>else out.  I would have to say that "I" am still inside it and that 
>therefore whatever "I" am is in the brain.  Now it can become very tricky 
>if I try to continue this process and try to draw the surface in such a 
>way that it only includes some of the brain but not all.  Now I'm not 
>sure how to answer.
>
>What is it that makes me think that I am the brain.  Well, if any other 
>part of the body is removed and not replaced, I would still be alive and 
>conscious, at least for a little while.  If the heart were removed and 
>not replaced, I would still be alive and conscious for a little while 
>longer.  Even if my head were cut off I would be alive and conscious for 
>a few seconds longer (this was demonstrated during the French Revolution 
>when cutoff heads were asked to blink if they can still hear).  However, 
>if my brain was removed and not replaced, well I'm pretty much dead 
>instantly.
>
>As far as replacing the brain one cell at a time goes, we are not the 
>hardware but the software.  We are like the waves on a string.  We are 
>not the material the string is made out of but only the wave itself.
>



