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From: brobbins@newbridge.com (Bert Robbins)
Subject: Re: Software Leasing
Message-ID: <D2v44H.JL2@Newbridge.COM>
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References: <D2Lv28.JsB@armory.com> <3fjk9b$1q8@booz.bah.com> <D2nwnz.76A@armory.com> <D2pJBy.13n@newbridge.com> <D2rKI7.2ur@armory.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:26:40 GMT
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Xref: glinda.oz.cs.cmu.edu comp.sys.sun.apps:11096 comp.software-eng:29734 comp.soft-sys.spss:3122 comp.robotics:17252

Richard Steven Walz (rstevew@armory.com) wrote:
: In article <D2pJBy.13n@newbridge.com>,
: Bert Robbins <brobbins@newbridge.com> wrote:
: >Richard Steven Walz (rstevew@armory.com) wrote:
: >: In article <3fjk9b$1q8@booz.bah.com>,  <pole@sartre.ads.com> wrote:
: >: >
: >: >In article <D2Lv28.JsB@armory.com>, <rstevew@armory.com> writes:
: >: >> Naw! This post above is just a commercialization of the net! He should have
: >: >> his butt kicked. If *I* need some software for a short time, *I* just STEAL
: >: >> it, and I recommend that others do too!!! You can just about find anything
: >: >> among my circle of friends!!!
: >: >> -Steve Walz  rstevew@armory.com
: >: >> 
: >: >
: >: >I find it amazing that you consider "commercialization of the net"
: >: >to be evil, and the person should be punished, but you recommend
: >: >robbery as a morally superior activity. When you steal software
: >: >you are not ripping off some mythical money manager, you are 
: >: >stealing the jobs of the engineers who should be paid for their
: >: >labors. Most of the cost of commercial software (that's stuff you're
: >: >..excuse me one is supposed to pay for) is in labor. Labor means
: >: >money paid to people.
: >: >
: >: >The government put a small fortune into starting the internet, 
: >: >they are not going to continue paying for it.
: >: >The net is not free, anyone who thinks it is is very naive; 
: >: >and its users and uses change daily. Deal with it.
: >: ---------------------------------------------------
: >: Software is overpriced because we are supposed to steal it. That is true
: >: because the rate of infrastructure upgrade in this country relies on
: >: computer-folk learning to use the new stuff on their OWN TIME and THEN
: >: being a ready source of talent for industry and government! I didn't MAKE
: >: it that way, but it IS that way!!! They overprice it to rip each other off
: >: as much as the market will bear, (corporations). They never intended the
: >: poor computer-folk, who could NEVER afford it, not have access to it, and
: >: it would mean the death of over two thirds of all small start-up companies
: >: to go fishing in their disk boxes for pirated stuff. Thus, because the
: >: nation would colllapse without it, the laws about copyright with respect to
: >: software are impossible and even undesirable in this country and others, to
: >: even TRY to enforce!!! NOW! Shithead! *YOU DEAL WITH IT!!!* NOBODY is being
: >: deprived of income, because LESS of their software would be purchased and
: >: NOT MORE if they enforced their so-called ownership!!! NOBODY would fucking
: >: know how to use it and it would never get even recommended to LOSER
: >: managers and ownership!!! What you, in your yuppified glow of greed fail to
: >: see clearly, is that you are being short-sighted and ignoring the existent
: >: situation we all live in which has arisen due to market necessity!!!
: >
: >: There is not JUST something warm and fuzzy about the net hackerism re:
: >: "The Free Access To Information". Humans have always been the most successful
: >: when they cooperated and did each other the favors as they could, and have
: >: always *FUCKED* themselves/everybody in the ASS when they DIDN"T!!!! The
: >: market forces have spoken, in their wisdom, that it is both UNWORTHWHILE
: >: *AND a *BAD THING* (tm) to interfere with low income software piracy!!! 
: >: It's time for *YOU* idiots to get into congruence with the "Market Forces"
: >: you seem to worship!!! If you want a fucking swimming pool, go dig one!
: >: -Steve Walz   rstevew@armory.com
: >
: >Steve,
: >
: >I would like you to come over to my house and write some software, do
: >some yard work and paint the house. As for how much I'm going to pay
: >you well forget it your time isn't worth anything.
: >
: >If I have a problem with my plumbing and can't fix it myself I call
: >a plumber. If I don't pay the plumber he will put a mechanic's lein
: >on my house and will eventually get paid when I sell the house.
: >
: >Software isn't free, never has been and never will be. Software placed
: >in the public domain, free, is great and a decision was made by the 
: >people who developed it not to charge money for it. But, if my 
: >primary source of income, corporation or contractor, is developing
: >software then I expect to get paid for my labor and if I don't get
: >paid for my labor then my labor is going to stop.
: >
: >Stealing, no matter how it is justified, is still stealing and it
: >is a crime morally and legally.
: >
: >Next time I'm in your neck of the woods and need a car I think I'll
: >just take yours. As long as you are not using it I might as well
: >get some use out of it.
: >Bert Robbins                             Newbridge Networks Inc.
: >brobbins@newbridge.com                   593 Herndon Pwky
: ---------------------------------------
: Bert: I said that market forces are at work here, and thus they are and you
: DO get paid what you get paid, and plumbers get to sit on house liens, and
: I get paid what I do FOR what I do! And you don't get to steal cars because
: it disrupts market forces, at least not unless you are very good at it and
: recycle the parts through Mexico! Parts would be a lot more expensive for
: some models without successful car theft rings! And thus they survive!
: Likewise, the people who couldn't afford to pay for your software anyway
: get it for nothing and you aren't really out one dime, because they don't
: have it to pay you anyway! Your argument is the simpleton's argument for
: "law and order" despite the consquences!! It has always sounded stupid, has
: been told to go home and sit on its thumb when it got too uppity, and is
: what makes you think police are as stupid as we pay them to be!!! And so
: they ARE!!! We make laws of convenience, out of convenience, not to please
: your primitive naive sense of "right and wrong"! Grow up! Honestly!! Such
: insipid naivete' hasn't been seen in a long time, at least since the
: freshman started the fall term!!!! I'm surprised people needed to tell you
: these things! This is a nation of laws, not of either men/women OR ideals!
: Don't tell me you hadn't figured out that ideal theories are the ones which
: are NEVER NEVER implemented!!! Nothing would work at ALL!!! Been reading
: too much idealised fiction again, eh? The truth is much more down and
: dirty, and things work the way the have to work! That's why YOU get to pay
: for other people's medical bills when you don't vote to pay taxes for far
: cheaper medical insurance for them that would shorten their hospital stay!
: It's quite simply because THINGS WORK THE WAY THEY HAVE TO WORK NO BLOODY
: FUCKING MATTER WHO YOU VOTED FOR YOU NAIVE CONSERVATIVE PRIG!!!:) If you
: don't understand the principle in upper case, then you really ARE slow!
: -Steve Walz   rstevew@armory.com

I guess we should repeal all of the laws about stealing and let market
forces take over.

Let the market drive itself, a conservative view, coming from someone
who dosen't agree with conservative thinking. I thought the liberals
wanted to controll the "free" markets not the conservatives?

--
Bert Robbins                             Newbridge Networks Inc.
brobbins@newbridge.com                   593 Herndon Pwky
703 708-5949                             Herndon, VA 22070
