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From: Douglas Moore
Subject: Re: Various Brainwashing...and Mindsets
Message-ID: <1995Apr22.070117.16160@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
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Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:01:17 GMT
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In article <3n6i9c$34e@mars.worldlinx.com>, joshua@oncomdis.on.ca (joshua) 
writes:

>st86m@Rosie.UH.EDU wrote:
>
>[sliceroony]
>
>: nothing?  Where did the Big Bang come from?  One answer is "God," but
>: where, then, did God come from?  Stephen Hawking in _A Brief History
>: of Time_ (which I am for some reason embarrased to cite) describes a
>: possible model of the universe in which the "beginning" and "end" of
>: time have no meaning -- the universe is a 4-dimentional sphere.  Just
>: because it finds a way around the tortoise problem does not mean he's
>: right, though.  There are other problems which bear a less obvious re-
>: lation to the tortoise ideas, such as logic. What reason do we have
>: to believe in logic?  Syrely logic cannot support itself!  I think
>: yiou get the picture...
>
>I don't think that he did find a way around the tortoise problem.
>In fact the tortoise problem is by nature unsolvable.  We will
>_never_ be able to get outside of our 4D sphere universe.  But
>just what is "outside" of it?  What is it's nature?  These are
>the ultimite questions.
>
>-- Joshua Allen

If you really can pose the ultimate question then you have also posed the 
embroyonic solution to it all.

I've just returned from an Easter holiday during which I was came across a very 
concrete case of posing the wrong question. It concerned the construction of a 
breakwater for a deep sea port in Warnambool, Australia over 100 years ago. 
After constructing the breakwater, they found that the port started to rapidly 
silt up with sand. The question was "How do you stop the sand from silting up 
the bay?" One answer involved stopping the sand from coming in from the East 
and so a new barrage was built up on the East side. This increased the silting.  
Then they thought it must come from the West, so the blocked up all the passage 
ways under the viaduct on the West. More silt. After a few more attempts, the 
whole project transformed into a major land reclamtion scheme and the port was 
closed down to shipping.

The real question was "How was the silt removed by Nature in the first place?" 
This question was answered in the original design which was not followed due to 
cost and involved the viaduct being a true viaduct and letting the natural 
movement of waters from the West to keep the bay free of sand.

The lesson is that if you have the wrong mindset, and pose the wrong question, 
you will rarely get the right answer. I beleive that there is a similar mindset 
at work in the science and philosphy of our time that is stopping people from 
posing the real "Ultimate Question".

Doug



      --------------------------------------------------
       Douglas Huntington Moore (doug@latcs1.lat.oz.au)

Epictetus,  Stoic thinker and ex slave, born 50 AD....
    The story of Epictetus being tortured. His torturer was twisting the
    philosopher's leg to hear him scream. Epictetus calmly said, "If you
    continue like that, you will break my leg." The torturer continued 
    twisting and finished up in breaking Epictetus's leg. Epictetus then
    proclamed, "I told you so. There, it's broken." 
 
In order to get to the truth, try this test out on you favourite philospher.
   --------------------------------------------------
