Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!magnesium.club.cc.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!news.mtu.edu!cescript
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS
Message-ID: <1993Apr26.203649.2978@mtu.edu>
Sender: news@mtu.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: fishlab10.fsh.mtu.edu
Organization: Michigan Tech
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
References: <1993Apr26.174819.13707@starbase.trincoll.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:36:49 GMT
Lines: 66

[Joe, why don't you put your username on your account?]

#reply#On Mon, 26 Apr 1993 17:48:19 GMT, joe.kusmierczak@mail.trincoll.edu wrote:

#reply#> Then the ATF discovers he doesn't have proper permits for some of his
#reply#> purchases and failed to pay some taxes on them. 

Or claims to have discovered so...  It would hardly be the first time
they raided someone based on incorrect evidence.

#reply#> Was it a 'no-knock?' I really haven't heard anything on that. But clearly

It was a "no-knock", according to the Associated Press report.
Here's something I found in my collection:

    Excerpts from an article in the Knoxville News-Sentinel Final
    Edition Monday, March 1, 1993 (the byline is associated press):

    WACO, Texas - Fierce gun battles erupted Sunday as more than 100
    law officers tried to arrest the leader of a heavily armed
    religious cult.  At least four federal agents and two cult members
    were reported killed.  [...]

    The gun battles began when federal agents hidden in livestock
    trailers stormed the sect's head-quarters Sunday morning,
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    witnesses said.  The agents had warrants to search for guns and
    explosives and to arrest Howell, said Les Stanford of the ATF in
    Washington.  [...]

    Witnesses said the law officers stormed the compound's main home,
    throwing concussion grenades and screaming "Come out," while three
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    National Guard helicopters approached.  For a moment, there was no
    response.  Then the shooting began. 

I think "storming the sect's head-quaters" and "throwing concussion
grenades" qualifies as a no-knock (or perhaps an illegal assault).

#reply#> he was not just another guy minding his own business. Hell, give them all
#reply#> the guns in the world if they don't bother anyone. But he was a scary sort,
#reply#> don't you think? The sort of person you'd want your daughter to date? I
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably not.  But then again, neither are you.

#reply#> Then he fired on the ATF. That's not just a little mistake, or some
#reply#> red-white-and blue American defending his home against Big Brother. That
#reply#> shit doesn't fly. Anyone with his background that will shoot and kill
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And just what is "his background"?  What prior crimes had he been
CONVICTED of?

#reply#> Federal Law Enforcement officials is not some good citizen whose crusade
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, BATF are "Federal TAX Enforcement officials".  They're not
police, nor do they have police powers.

#sig# --
#sig# Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
#sig# Dept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931
#sig# -------------------------------------------------------------
#sig# "...  The people cannot be all, and always, well informed.  The part
#sig# which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance
#sig# of the facts they misconceive.  If they remain quiet under such
#sig# misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public
#sig# liberty.  ..."   Thomas Jefferson, Nov. 13, 1787
